#belonging – In Conversation

I do know it’s not just a cultural “thing”.

HJ, I don’t think it is just a cultural “thing”. I think it might be beyond just a cultural “thing”.

There has been so many times I’ve felt this way here in my home country Australia and when overseas.

Is it a cultural “thing” or an emotional/feeling “thing”.

A very good question. I battled with this feeling of “don’t fit in” for the most time of my life. Well, moving from a country to another, it was difficult to secure my identity. Only recently I realised not only people like me, who moved from a country to another, will have such feeling of “don’t fit in”. I realised people who never left the country they’ve born may also feel that.

It can be difficult to fit in even when you speak the language, understand the culture and know “what’s expected” yet add to that not being able to speak the language, understand the culture and not know what’s expected and all this can keep you “locked away” not wanting to find others who feel the same way.

Well, I guess, it is not just speak the language, understand the culture, and know “what’s expected”. For me, it was finding the balance between been unique while you are similar to others. For me, it was about belongingness. Where do I belong? Where can I belong? Who do I belong? Not able to find an answer to these questions lead me to a quest: Who am I?

I have experienced a culture which embraced the notion of been ordinary. When you are different, you have been tagged as an “odd” person. I didn’t like to be an “odd” person so I tried everything I can to fit in. Yet, no matter what I do, no matter how hard I tried, I was still an “odd” person who was different to the majority of the people around me at the time. At the same time, I was starting to accepting my history of being an immigrant, yet I still wanted to be accepted to that culture. Well, yes, I was trying to solve unsolvable question.

As my background of living in different countries was a unique experience, I saw it as a flaw rather than a uniqueness. It took me a long time to start embracing it as my uniqueness. It wasn’t a present experience when you are battling with constant rejection, exclusion and elimination.

I didn’t like group works because I didn’t know how to contribute. I didn’t like people asking me questions because I don’t have an answer for them. I didn’t like parties because majority of time I don’t know what they are talking about. It might due to lack of language proficiency yet it was more than that. It was that feeling of insecurity of not belonging to anywhere.

We all have ability.
The difference is how we use it.
Stevie Wonder

This brings me to expanding our language around those emotions and feelings to understand more about what’s going on. English speaking people still don’t have an expansive language around emotions and feelings so I can only image how difficult it would be for those who feel their English is “not good” let alone trying to understand the meanings of the words.

Yes, HJ. That’s what I meant. So what is it? I had so much trouble understand what do they, I mean each word, really mean.

I thought I would include a list and see how many you are confident with using.

This is a very interesting figure. I can recognise some words that I use often and others that I never heard before. Well, at the same time, some words I have different meaning attached to it.

The isolation can bring with it so many other issues.

Yes. Isolation can be very lonely. I used to live in a large city away from my family. Population density of that city was higher than where my family were. I still felt lonely and isolated. That was the first time I felt I was lost in the big city. I don’t know who to turn to. I don’t know where to go to. I was happy in my own little shell yet hoped someone to get me out of the hole.

And then there are our children. Trying to fit in, learn the language and all the different terms for things.

Yes. I went through that. It was a long battle finding myself.

Just as cherry, plum, peach and damson blossoms all possess their own unique qualities, each person is unique. We cannot become someone else. The important thing is that we live true to ourselves and cause the great flower of our lives to blossom.
Daisaku Ikeda

I have taught migrants English and basic maths for over thirty years and have discovered people from other countries are so intelligent and have a wicked sense of humour and great stength when you give them a chance.

I saw my parents do that. I mean when they decided to migrate to Australia, they were willing to do anything to make this move work. They tried everything they can. Grabbed any job they were offered. Eventually, they slowly found their way.

Discussing the “difficulties” and “no particular rules” to learning English has been a joy for me and so much fun for the “migrants”. Many became family for each other and many welcomed me into their family and culture. When learning is fun, it changes everything. There is no longer the expectation of trying to be “perfect”.

Having travelled extensively, I do understand how isolating it can be and I’ve also experienced the love and generosity of so many. This has always been something I’ve wanted to do here in Australia, regardless of where a person was born of the culture they were born into.

I think you have successfully done so. I think you have told me how to kindly ask when I don’t know. It was an eye opening experience discovering I enforced so much boundaries and expectations on myself that others didn’t really care. It took me a lot of courage, reframing and questioning of what each word mean to that person who have used it.

Building a persons ability to communicate, and even more so their self esteem to not give up and remember in many cases it’s not about them, it’s about the inability of others to understand.

One huge lesson I’ve learnt is that if you are feeling you “don’t fit in” then you probably don’t. Harsh maybe, yet why waste your valuable time and energy where it’s not being appreciated or valued.

What I have learned from my experience?
I have learned to belong to me, myself. Regardless of external groups that I may belong or not to, I belong to myself. After discovering where I belong to, I am firmly grounded on who I am which allowed me to discover beyond my comfortable zone. Only then I felt, it is okay I may not belong or fit in. It is just a spice in life.

People who are rooted in the here and now, who are not defeated by their limitations, who don’t compare themselves to others, who confidently advance along their chosen path – such people are happy, such people are truly great.
Daisaku Ikeda

My experience has shown me that when you do this, you miss opportunities to connect with “like minded” souls. It can be a lonely time while you are “out there” looking for “like minded” souls yet, it’s for the long term and you meet so many different people and learn more about who are “your people”. They are there.

Until you find them, keep believing you have so much to contribute to this world and even if you are “struggling” to fit in, remember you already do. BE you and they will come.

If it doesn't open, it's not your door!” (3.25.19) | Life path quotes, Daughter love quotes, Wisdom quotes

HJ, in your culture, do you change your surname when you get married?

Interesting question Lily. I first married in 1975 and it was a given to take your husbands surname. At that time there was the start of the hyphen surname, maiden name then husband name. It was considered quite radical and start of female independence. It was never an issue for me at that time. I don’t identify myself with a name, and yet I do understand the following

A name is so important. A surname connects you to your past, to... | Picture Quotes

Do you have a choice?

I don’t really know at the time of the first marriage. It was “kinda” the thing to do, you now “belong”. Which I came to realise later, to belong to someone is not healthy, well for me anyway.

Researching to find articles to add to this piece I found it interesting with all the different “meanings” given to changing to husbands surname. You do it to show commitment was just one. Well, my immediate reaction is, if the man is committed then why doesn’t he take his wife’s name? Why does it need to be the woman who has to show her commitment? And it was here I decided to stop as I would go on for far too long.

What happens if you got divorced? Which surname do you keep?

Always tricky and complicated (changing all the legal papers etc). Most women I know who took their husbands name at marriage did change their surname back to their maiden name. I didn’t. I’ve kept my married name from my second marriage. It was basically for convenience. I’m not the name, regardless of which one I use. I do know for many they so identify with the name that there is no question about changing back. There are those who will choose a new surname and not revert to their maiden name. We have so many choices these days, when not caught up in a cultural “duty” or whatever it is called. Maybe “rules”?

In my culture that I grow up, majority of people change their surname when they get married. Yes, I am talking about the notion of married into the family.

In the culture that I grow up, when a woman get married, they have a choice of using double-surnames (Maiden surname-new/married family’s surname) or maintain their maiden name or use new/married family’s surname. Surname is a sign of belonging to the family. It is the culture that when woman get married, they belongs to the new family. Of course there is opposite situation too.
What about your culture HJ?

The whole “belonging” to anyone and anything is something that really doesn’t resonate with me at all as I got older. In my experience, with that comes limitations and loss of independence and you are expected to “do as you are told”. I can only imagine how difficult it is when you are born into such a culture where it is “expected” or the family will not support you any more.

I have experienced more of a “belonging” to families without changing my name. To be accepted as who you are regardless of a name is such an empowering experience and one I’ve continued throughout my life.

In the culture I grow up, usually when a woman get married, they are likely to choose having double-surnames. This means that their official documents such as the marriage certificate or family register will have double-surnames.

Be true to who you are and the family name you bare.
Gordon B. Hinckley

When my family migrated to Australia, Government systems didn’t allow hyphens in the name. Adding to the complication is our translated legal documents didn’t have hyphens too! So, back then, hyphens were often ignored . (The systems had improved since and I believe now people can have hyphens in their name). For example, my brother’s first name become one syllable rather than two syllables which usually is connected with a hyphen.
My mother’s fullname was complicated further. Not only her first name which consisted two syllables become one syllable, her double-surnames become one surname (married family’s surname), her maiden surname beomces her middle name.

Are you confused yet? Let me simply this by following example.
(Disclaimer: This is a mock-up example for illustration purpose onlly)
A person’s name may be originally…
First name: Mary-Jane Surname: Smith-Jones
Fullname: Mary-Jane Smith-Jones

Because hyphens were not used in the system then this name becomes…
First name: Mary Middle name: Jane Middle name2: Smith Surname: Jones
Fullname Mary Jane Smith Jones (also can be known as Mary Jones)
I think you can now see the confusion.

Wow Lily, very confusing. And it would have been extremely difficult to come to terms with the changes within the family when the cultural choices were as they were in your family’s home country.

After about a decade in Australia, my sister had to officially change her name with hyphens. My brother gave up saying it is too hard to change all his legal documents.
This is what happened to my mother.
She has some legal documents with Mary Jones, Mary Smith Jones, Mary Smith-Jones, Mary-Jane Smith-Jones, Mary-Jane Jones, Mary Simith, Mary-Jane Smith etc.
I think you can now appreciate how complicated this issues are now.

How wonderful that your Mother decided to sort it all out. I can only imagine how confusing and frustrating it is/was for her to have to try and explain all the variations. I do remember my mother telling me she didn’t know is she was Grace Elizabeth or Elizabeth Grace as she had been known as Bonnie all her life and Bonnie was used on some paperwork.

How I come across to this conversation?
One day, my parents had a battle around which surname to use from here. After all these years, my mum finally determined to formalise all her legal documentations. She had tallied up all the versions of names she had on her legal documents and decided to use her maiden surname.

When she told that to my father he replied “So, you have married to me but you are no longer wanting to be part of my clan.” My mother looked confused and asked “what do you mean?” My father said “It is your choice to whether you want to be in the same grave as me or not. How dare you change choose your maiden surname instead of mine. That is very disgraceful and disrespectful to my family.”

And that is why so many women struggle. The man “rules the house” still goes on. You belong to them when you get married and are expected to “do as you are told”. For him to see your Mum’s decision the way he has would have been very difficult for your Mother to follow through with what she wanted. And as many women do, they back down and allow the “man” to have his way, to keep the peace. I would never judge a woman for making the choice they need to for them. I truly is a very individual choice that comes with many “things” to consider.

My mother was stunned and didn’t know what to respond. Even though they were raised in the culture that you can choose yet my father was a strong believer in the notion of “clan” or “family”.

Father, sons, brothers, men everywhere: Your legacy will not perish if you take your partner’s surname, or she keeps hers.
Zoe Saldana

When mum shared this situation with me I burst out laughing becuase my grandparents had similar fight too. My grandfather said the same thing to my grandmother too!! My grandmother told me afterwards and said “I don’t want to be in the same grave as him. Why does he assume I want to be in the same grave as him? I don’t.”

Oh Lily, I so love your grandmother and her attitude and being so honest.

The clan is nothing more than a larger family, with its patriarchal chief as the natural head, and the union of several clans by intermarriage and voluntary connection constitutes the tribe.
Charles Eastman

What’s your take on that HJ?

In my life time so far, it really can be a struggle for so many reasons. Family, religion, culture. I feel it’s a very personal decision. Something that needs to be discussed before marriage. I’m not a huge believer in marriage, which sounds odd for someone who was married twice, yet whose name you take and why doesn’t seem to be an issue these days? Maybe my knowledge is limited. Maybe the issue is more about belonging or being independent, or how you want to be identified?

Tag: #belonging

I DON’T FIT IN

Which family do you belong?