HJ, in your culture, do you change your surname when you get married?
Interesting question Lily. I first married in 1975 and it was a given to take your husbands surname. At that time there was the start of the hyphen surname, maiden name then husband name. It was considered quite radical and start of female independence. It was never an issue for me at that time. I don’t identify myself with a name, and yet I do understand the following
Do you have a choice?
I don’t really know at the time of the first marriage. It was “kinda” the thing to do, you now “belong”. Which I came to realise later, to belong to someone is not healthy, well for me anyway.
Researching to find articles to add to this piece I found it interesting with all the different “meanings” given to changing to husbands surname. You do it to show commitment was just one. Well, my immediate reaction is, if the man is committed then why doesn’t he take his wife’s name? Why does it need to be the woman who has to show her commitment? And it was here I decided to stop as I would go on for far too long.
What happens if you got divorced? Which surname do you keep?
Always tricky and complicated (changing all the legal papers etc). Most women I know who took their husbands name at marriage did change their surname back to their maiden name. I didn’t. I’ve kept my married name from my second marriage. It was basically for convenience. I’m not the name, regardless of which one I use. I do know for many they so identify with the name that there is no question about changing back. There are those who will choose a new surname and not revert to their maiden name. We have so many choices these days, when not caught up in a cultural “duty” or whatever it is called. Maybe “rules”?
In my culture that I grow up, majority of people change their surname when they get married. Yes, I am talking about the notion of married into the family.
In the culture that I grow up, when a woman get married, they have a choice of using double-surnames (Maiden surname-new/married family’s surname) or maintain their maiden name or use new/married family’s surname. Surname is a sign of belonging to the family. It is the culture that when woman get married, they belongs to the new family. Of course there is opposite situation too.
What about your culture HJ?
The whole “belonging” to anyone and anything is something that really doesn’t resonate with me at all as I got older. In my experience, with that comes limitations and loss of independence and you are expected to “do as you are told”. I can only imagine how difficult it is when you are born into such a culture where it is “expected” or the family will not support you any more.
I have experienced more of a “belonging” to families without changing my name. To be accepted as who you are regardless of a name is such an empowering experience and one I’ve continued throughout my life.
In the culture I grow up, usually when a woman get married, they are likely to choose having double-surnames. This means that their official documents such as the marriage certificate or family register will have double-surnames.
Be true to who you are and the family name you bare.
Gordon B. Hinckley
When my family migrated to Australia, Government systems didn’t allow hyphens in the name. Adding to the complication is our translated legal documents didn’t have hyphens too! So, back then, hyphens were often ignored . (The systems had improved since and I believe now people can have hyphens in their name). For example, my brother’s first name become one syllable rather than two syllables which usually is connected with a hyphen.
My mother’s fullname was complicated further. Not only her first name which consisted two syllables become one syllable, her double-surnames become one surname (married family’s surname), her maiden surname beomces her middle name.
Are you confused yet? Let me simply this by following example.
(Disclaimer: This is a mock-up example for illustration purpose onlly)
A person’s name may be originally…
First name: Mary-Jane Surname: Smith-Jones
Fullname: Mary-Jane Smith-Jones
Because hyphens were not used in the system then this name becomes…
First name: Mary Middle name: Jane Middle name2: Smith Surname: Jones
Fullname Mary Jane Smith Jones (also can be known as Mary Jones)
I think you can now see the confusion.
Wow Lily, very confusing. And it would have been extremely difficult to come to terms with the changes within the family when the cultural choices were as they were in your family’s home country.
After about a decade in Australia, my sister had to officially change her name with hyphens. My brother gave up saying it is too hard to change all his legal documents.
This is what happened to my mother.
She has some legal documents with Mary Jones, Mary Smith Jones, Mary Smith-Jones, Mary-Jane Smith-Jones, Mary-Jane Jones, Mary Simith, Mary-Jane Smith etc.
I think you can now appreciate how complicated this issues are now.
How wonderful that your Mother decided to sort it all out. I can only imagine how confusing and frustrating it is/was for her to have to try and explain all the variations. I do remember my mother telling me she didn’t know is she was Grace Elizabeth or Elizabeth Grace as she had been known as Bonnie all her life and Bonnie was used on some paperwork.
How I come across to this conversation?
One day, my parents had a battle around which surname to use from here. After all these years, my mum finally determined to formalise all her legal documentations. She had tallied up all the versions of names she had on her legal documents and decided to use her maiden surname.
When she told that to my father he replied “So, you have married to me but you are no longer wanting to be part of my clan.” My mother looked confused and asked “what do you mean?” My father said “It is your choice to whether you want to be in the same grave as me or not. How dare you change choose your maiden surname instead of mine. That is very disgraceful and disrespectful to my family.”
And that is why so many women struggle. The man “rules the house” still goes on. You belong to them when you get married and are expected to “do as you are told”. For him to see your Mum’s decision the way he has would have been very difficult for your Mother to follow through with what she wanted. And as many women do, they back down and allow the “man” to have his way, to keep the peace. I would never judge a woman for making the choice they need to for them. I truly is a very individual choice that comes with many “things” to consider.
My mother was stunned and didn’t know what to respond. Even though they were raised in the culture that you can choose yet my father was a strong believer in the notion of “clan” or “family”.
Father, sons, brothers, men everywhere: Your legacy will not perish if you take your partner’s surname, or she keeps hers.
Zoe Saldana
When mum shared this situation with me I burst out laughing becuase my grandparents had similar fight too. My grandfather said the same thing to my grandmother too!! My grandmother told me afterwards and said “I don’t want to be in the same grave as him. Why does he assume I want to be in the same grave as him? I don’t.”
Oh Lily, I so love your grandmother and her attitude and being so honest.
The clan is nothing more than a larger family, with its patriarchal chief as the natural head, and the union of several clans by intermarriage and voluntary connection constitutes the tribe.
Charles Eastman
What’s your take on that HJ?
In my life time so far, it really can be a struggle for so many reasons. Family, religion, culture. I feel it’s a very personal decision. Something that needs to be discussed before marriage. I’m not a huge believer in marriage, which sounds odd for someone who was married twice, yet whose name you take and why doesn’t seem to be an issue these days? Maybe my knowledge is limited. Maybe the issue is more about belonging or being independent, or how you want to be identified?
In Conversation 